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Hello,
It seems in the texts I have encountered it usually says that one needs to recite a mantra at least a million times or more before "definite signs will occur." This was referring to the "approach" mantra, while the accomplishment and activity mantras followed. Has anyone actually gone far enough to know what happens when you recite a million mantras? Do you obtain definite siddhis?
I am struggling with this aspect of my practice. I believe in bodhicitta and the power of meditation based on my own experience, but it is harder to have faith in the deity and mantra practices without much experience of the results they produce even after a few years of practice. Early on I had an amazing experience with mantra recitation that was totally undeniable, but I feel like I am still riding on that for my faith in the recitation of mantras, etc. It was probably the most amazing thing I've experienced (outside of a peyote ceremony, anyways!) but it is hard to rely on just one experience to know something so far out is true.
It seems in the texts I have encountered it usually says that one needs to recite a mantra at least a million times or more before "definite signs will occur." This was referring to the "approach" mantra, while the accomplishment and activity mantras followed. Has anyone actually gone far enough to know what happens when you recite a million mantras? Do you obtain definite siddhis?
I am struggling with this aspect of my practice. I believe in bodhicitta and the power of meditation based on my own experience, but it is harder to have faith in the deity and mantra practices without much experience of the results they produce even after a few years of practice. Early on I had an amazing experience with mantra recitation that was totally undeniable, but I feel like I am still riding on that for my faith in the recitation of mantras, etc. It was probably the most amazing thing I've experienced (outside of a peyote ceremony, anyways!) but it is hard to rely on just one experience to know something so far out is true.
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Re: mantra and siddhi
Wed, August 5, 2009 - 2:31 PMI'll say just a little about this.
First, *belief* in Bodhicitta will not be enough.
Do you have the Bodhisattva vows? Are you
practicing some aspect of generating relative
Bodhicitta? Reason I ask is that Tantric result
is predicated on motivation, and a qualified guru.
Second, from a Tantric practice point of view,
your daily practice *is* the re-capturing of the
experience you had when you received the
empowerment. So you have to rely on your
experience with your teacher -- that's how you
form the habit of "being that" in the ontological
sense. So the "good" experience is what you've
got-- that's what you have to work with. That's how
you build both faith and experience. In the final
analysis the Deity is your Buddha Nature. All
you have is faith, until you experience it.
"Receiving siddhi" is not necessarily dramatic.
In fact. proper group retreats usually end with
"receiving siddhis" where retreatants file past
the vajra master and other lamas present to
partake of the tormas and other implements.
When we have accumulated enough mantras
we can often notice ways in which we are more
like the qualities that the deity represents. Now,
if you are doing something extreme, such as
Vajrakilaya, Yamantaka or chod-- the result of
practice may be more obvious.
Last point: after you've received an empowerment
and begun practice, you're really in no position to
entertain doubts. That said, there is always some
ambivalence-- at least until you have realization-- but
that's what practice is-- stabilizing your otherwise
fluctuating mind. You have to get used to it, while
trying to overcome that bad habit. Trust the process,
and apologize to your guru and Deities for whatever
shortcomings. That's why most sadhanas contain
a confession and vajrasattva recitation. That's why we
recite no fewer that 21 Dorsem (Vajrasattva) a day.
Helpful? I hope. However you can cultivate faith, do it.
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Re: mantra and siddhi
Wed, August 5, 2009 - 3:27 PMDoes "siddhi" mean realization?
I'm new to this tribe but it seems like a good place for me right now...even just looking through the archives.
Mark (or anyone else),
I was given a mantra by some kind tibetans when I was going through a very difficult time...almost a psychic attack by someone..but I don't reallyunderstand it..though I have sought translations. I say it aloud and to myself all the time..but I'm sure I haven't reached a million. It has helped.
Here it is.
Om ah hung badzar
guru padma siddhi hung.
I had been familiar with
Om mani padma hum
do hum and hung mena the same?
I have read a fair amount about BUddhism and incorporated elements of the philosophy into my life to some degree..
mostly I read works by the Dalai Lama as I find them more accessible and pertinent to the challenges I confront.
What sutras might you recommend to start out a more structured understanding of the precepts of buddhism?
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Re: mantra and siddhi
Wed, August 5, 2009 - 4:07 PMOm A Hum, (pronounced Ohm ah hung) is called vajrajapa (indestructable recitation) and is a very famous mantric method used in all Tibetan schools. The three syllables refer to vajra-body, vajra-speech and vajra-mind.
The rest of the mantra is
"Vajra-guru" = indestructible teacher
Padma = Lotus (meaning the Lotus born guru Padmasambhava)
Siddhi = accomplishment
Hum! is a common terminal syllable in Buddhist mantras and is attributed quasi-magical qualities (in siddha stories they are alway using their Humkaras to cause magical effects).
The mantra is a Tibetan transliteration of Sanskrit phrases and bijas. -
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Re: mantra and siddhi
Wed, August 5, 2009 - 4:26 PMThanks Ryan, and additionally,
Amitabha is the Dharmakaya,
Chenresi is the Samhogakaya,
and Padmasambhava is the
Nirmanakaya for the Lotus Family--
so the Om Mani Peme Hung is
related to this-- though not the same.
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Re: mantra and siddhi
Wed, August 5, 2009 - 4:22 PMHi Skylar,
Look for a picture of Padmasmbhava aka Guru Rinpoche.
What you have is called either the siddhi or vajra guru mantra.
Were you given an initiation ceremony or just the oral transmission?
You can read quite a lot about this, the founder of Tibetan Buddhism.
His mantra is especially powerful when emotion and delusion run high--
times when there're wars, economic upheavals, etc.
The meaning in simple terms is "May the Tantric Guru Padmasambhava's
secret Body, Speech and Mind grant all miraculous power up to and including
Enlightenment." You'd want to say at least 1,300,000 of these mantras.
But if you can say 3M, 10M, 50M or 100M, so much the better! Especially
if you have empowerment.
To understand the whole of Tibetan Buddhism in overview, in my opinion,
"Tibetan Book of Living and Dying" by Sogyal Rinpoche is perfect. You could
follow up by reading "Words of my Perfect Teacher" by Patrul Rinpoche.
Then you could read more classical texts such as" Way of the Bodhisattva"
by Shantideva along with commentaries like "Nectar of Manjushri's Speech"
by Kunzang Pelden. The available literature is vast and profound.
You could also read "Jewel Ornament of Liberation" by Gampopa, or the
Lam Rim Chenmo by Lama Tsongkhapa, but in my opinion it's best to start
with simpler texts and proceed to the more difficult ones.
Classical texts and Sutras are generally written in extremely terse form--
like extensive lecture notes , they require commentaries and guidance from
a qualified Lama to tease out all the meaning that is packed into each word.
In a shedra (Dharma College) one word might be studied for a week or more;
a sentence for a month; a chapter 2 years. Where are you located?
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Re: mantra and siddhi
Wed, August 5, 2009 - 5:43 PMI reccomend heart sutra and the best beginner book is "Transformation of Suffering" by Rinpoche Khenchen Konchog Gyaltsen all his books are awesome. And he really cares about english language and perfectly translating from perfect tibetan.
He does best sadhana book with practice and commentary for ten yidams called "Pearl Rosary". He also did the best translation of jewel ornament of liberation too. I almost met him but I got really sick with flu that weekend (sigh) haha! -
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Re: mantra and siddhi
Wed, August 5, 2009 - 6:28 PMThanks for your suggestion, nyonpa..well written and careful translations are important. I'll take a look at those books by Rinpoche Khenchen Konchog Gyaltsen.
The truth is I'm unlikely to buy more than one or two..as I focus best that way...if and when I finish them..I'll get more.
I'm moving right now and I'm a little saddened to find more than just a couple of unread books in m y collection ..fortunately there's still time. -
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Do we really have time?
Thu, August 6, 2009 - 3:42 AMUnfortunately we do not know how much time we truly have..... our next breath could be our last..... even if we live a long life it is still not really that much time..... and death beckons a new migration with endless distractions caused by the senses with confusions! You may not have precious oppurtunity as a human again for a long time! And if you are fortunate and do become human, will you have precious leisure to study again? Just in recent modern times are common folks able to have "free" time instead of just the extremely rich. Life is impermanent realization is permanent. Or so they say. I have had head injuries and twice had amnesia in past so I wonder. Ha!
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Re: Do we really have time?
Thu, August 6, 2009 - 1:35 PMnothing is permanent...
and I agree that one never knows how much time one has left...but that realization doesn't merit a regretful state of mind, imo.
Forward we go. -
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regret
Thu, August 6, 2009 - 8:24 PMBest to not have any regrets. They are just things that have already passed. Remorse however and determination to not repeat mistakes is good. Me thinks it is better to regret doing something than to regret not doing something. But I am a fool that knows nothing.
Up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down.......................... we go. I am searching for middle way.
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Re: mantra and siddhi
Wed, August 5, 2009 - 5:36 PMThank you sooo much Ryan and Mark..for the translations and the recommended readings! : )
I also think it is best for me to start with simpler texts...though I can grasp abstractions quite well..the way they are expressed makes an enormous difference in my comprehension. I am more about incorporating these ideas into my daily life and less about being a buddhist scholar. Of course the two approaches are not entirely separate or in any way opposed, I suppose.
I will return to a more frequent recitation of the mantra...and of course working on meditation..which I find difficult but essential.
Such a nice welcome to the tribe...thaks again! -
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Re: mantra and siddhi
Wed, August 5, 2009 - 5:38 PM(I live in the East Bay but am not part of a Buddhist center..perhaps soon.. I feel the practice and the meditation are the most important of first steps) -
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Re: mantra and siddhi
Wed, August 5, 2009 - 5:52 PMEast Bay. Then you're in the middle of it.
So many centers in Berkeley and in SF--
even San Jose and certainly Santa Cruz.
Lots of Lamas, most of them speak English
reasonably well or even fluently. All four
schools are represented, bookstores have
the main texts in stock... you have it all. :) -
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Re: mantra and siddhi
Wed, August 5, 2009 - 5:59 PM>you have it all. :)
Not quite. Minnesota will beat the Bay Area in solitude and cold winters every single time.
Oh yeah, we've also won the Siberian tundra look-a-like contest 5 years running.
Sorry, just feeling silly
Ryan -
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Re: mantra and siddhi
Wed, August 5, 2009 - 6:21 PMsilly's good. I'm for silliness...I hear Buddhism and silliness are not incompatible..lucky me : )
but nonetheless I have to say.. I couldn't love any place (in the US) more than the SF Bay Area. It's the best home I've ever had...
as far as the lamas and the Buddhist centers go..well I feel a little hesitant because I haven't been meditating long..and still infrequently at times.. I feel that comes first..and some more comprhensive reading. I went to Empty Gate a few times..and it just felt as though everyone had been Buddhists for so long and were so discplined. I'll see about another group..but the reading and my own practice will surely propel me a bit farther down the path.
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Re: mantra and siddhi
Wed, August 5, 2009 - 6:40 PMZen is for masochists. :)
A really good place to learn basic meditation
is the Berkeley Shambhala Center, they teach
beginner courses! But don't think that mantra
recitation and the loud rituals of the Vajrayana
are not meditation. Just watch the bulletin boards
for when and where the Lamas are teaching,
and visit centers-- eventually you'll figure out
where you belong.
I can give you some suggestions privately if
you like.
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Re: mantra and siddhi
Thu, August 13, 2009 - 4:32 PMGrateful praises to Avalokiteshvara!
Do not look for anything from your mantra. they should be done to honor the commitment you have with your higher self, an invitation for your own buddha-nature to come to the surface. Results are always there, but not like big bang hollywood, just look and see the magic in your life that starts unfolding. It may be an uneventful practice, and then days later you have all these good things happen to you.
i think there is also an eb and flow of wether a mantra practice is really right for you now. how good is your meditative practice? if it is not there, then you should start with anapana or breathing as your focus. not that mantra is bad for those without focus, but it is built upon the concentrative mind that is not going off every two seconds in dialogue.
Mantra works best when you dissolve into it. "relax, relax. alert, alert."
Then when there is no feeling of you doing the mantra, and the mantra there being this device which is supposed to produce results, you will gain insight into your mind.
We don't do these practices to gain anything at all. First, we must recognize that it is our right to be happy, because that's what is needed in this world. Happiness and clarity. So i start my meditation by checking in to make sure i believe i should be happy....otherwise i can use my practices just to put myself down, and no Buddha is going to support me in that. Also check to see you harbor nothing against others.
You must have a straight back, otherwise prana will not flow. this is important. NOT a militant back that you constantly think about....just mostly up and not mostly bent over :) relaxed in the formal sense of the word haha
Also associating with a guru, or someone who has the realizations of mantras is really helpful and crucial. If you don't have access to one, you can pray for one, and also use someone who inspires you and pray to them to help you develop a stronger mantra practice.
Mantra is not far out. It's a basic concentration process....like any other meditation, and we are looking to slow and calm the mind. that's why starting with breath work helps to boost mantra work. Hows the breath, hows the body, can we relax in anyway? slow and calm the mind to the point of happiness by letting go. Are you letting go into the mantra or trying to push it through harder? Are you judging yourself for not getting results of mantra, are you tripping about it? The point is just to do it, to commit to clearing the mind, and sitting in your Buddha potential despite all the back and forth our mind does.
if sitting there on the toilet does, then Of course the mantra will also lead to Siddhis...awakenings... :) -
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Re: mantra and siddhi
Thu, August 13, 2009 - 5:30 PMNice.
But of course. we do it all for Buddhahood.
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Re: mantra and siddhi
Sat, August 22, 2009 - 12:17 PMHi Nigel,
Thanks for the nice post. My experience is in line with what you say about the importance of having a solid foundation in meditations such as watching the breath, keeping the channels open and aligned, etc. I find that it is best to do mantra only once I have done some exercise to open the channels and regulate prana (qigong, etc) and taken some time to still my mind. And this is an ongoing process, something I return to regularly in a rather cyclical or spiral way. If I focus on mantra or intellectually complex contemplative practices too tightly my mind gets kinda wigged out.
I suspect this has something to do with being very academically involved with school right now as well--when I was working more physically this problem didn't occur as much, but now I find it very important to exercise and root into my physicality, otherwise my mind gets strung out easily and generates a lot of anxiety.
Peace,
Matt -
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Re: mantra and siddhi
Sat, August 22, 2009 - 4:25 PMYea, you know-- the more intellectual and "heady"
we are-- the more intensely we meditate, the more
likely we'll experience "rLung" disease in practice.
So try to practice sereiously but not tightly, as it were--
in other words more spaceous, better sense of emptiness
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Re: mantra and siddhi
Sat, August 22, 2009 - 4:52 PMWhat's "rLung" disease, Mark?
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Re: mantra and siddhi
Sun, August 23, 2009 - 7:53 AMWhat's Lung?
Well, Tibetan medicine is a Buddhist system of health care
based on the accumulated knowledge of the Ancient world.
Buddhist Sutras and Tantras describe Anatomy and Physiology
in certain ways similarly to Indian Ayurveda. Due to history, Tibetans
included knowledge from Ancient Persia, Greece, and China as well
as their own indigenous sources.
So Lung means wind or breath. Did you ever "receive Lung" of a text
from a Lama? He or She read the text to you and you receive communication
by way of lung. Ok, so we're talking excess of wind relative to bile (fire) and
phlegm (water). Mind rides on Lung and if Lung is excessive or erratic, then
mind is disturbed and a basis for insanity. Generally speaking, as we get older
our fire diminishes and our lung becomes prevalent-- we dry up. Make sense?
Too much thinking or too strong an intensity of energy associated with visualizing
a deity as real, too much passion can make us loopy...
Antidote? Prostrations, direct experience of emptiness, and anti-lung medicines. -
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Re: mantra and siddhi
Sun, August 23, 2009 - 8:32 AMThis is what is commonly known as Vata disturbance in Ayurveda, disturbance of the wind and space elements. One can also use Vata/rLung subdoing foods like milk, meat, butter, gentle sweets (not overly sugary) etc. I find rooibos tea with milk helpful. This also generally corresponds to what Chinese medicine calls Blood Deficiency, though there may more specifically be any number of patterns associated with it based on individual constitution. -
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Re: mantra and siddhi
Mon, August 24, 2009 - 9:06 PMDo you recite mantra for far out experiences and siddhis or do you do it for a link to a perfect wave of liberation? Siddhis are just side-effects not goal. It doesn't matter how many wangs or lungs you get if your desired end result is wrong-view. The great Gampopa had many amazing "visions" and such in meditation and always bothered Milarepa about them and he would always be told, "they don't matter, empty, just continue your practice.'
People used to ask the artist Salvadore Dali' if he did psychedelic drugs and he said, "No, I am a psychedelic drug." -
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Re: mantra and siddhi
Mon, August 24, 2009 - 10:01 PMThese things are just tools brother. Don't use a jet engine just to light a cigarette .
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Re: mantra and siddhi
Mon, August 31, 2009 - 10:18 PMI am not suggesting at all the far out experiences or even worldly siddhis are the end goal, or my end goal, in mantra recitation. What I'm getting at is the issue of how one actually verifies that one is accomplishing something on the spiritual path and that the methods one is using are truly skillful and appropriate.
I have always gauged my spiritual path by what sorts of changes I see in myself and my engagement with the world. Practices like cultivating the Four Immeasurables can produce a noticeable change in your relationships and outlook on life. But how do we gauge the effect of mantra? Its not about having experiences because they are fun or far-out but about developing a faith based on reason and experience rather than hearsay.
Milarepa of course dismissed visions as unimportant to the final goal, but he was also a Siddha who could shapeshift and fly and survive successive Tibetan winters on nettles. Again, not that these are the most important aspect of the Dharma by any means, and not to suggest that a casual modern practitioner would attain this level in a single life, but without some type experience, how do you know that what you are doing is meaningful? -
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Re: mantra and siddhi
Tue, September 1, 2009 - 6:16 AMMatt,
This is an excellent and well worded inquiry. I guess the answer of whether your practice is "meaningful" depends greatly on view.
Practice can impact beings in 6 realms (or 10 realms depending on the school).
It is difficult to confirm your impact in other realms ...but in this realm it is kind of like how a smile to a stranger can spread and multiply to others you dont even know. Practicing the Dharma is like that smile on streriods. Sometime you just dont know what impact you have on others in life so we try to simply be aware.
As far as your own practice goes....take it easy, its not something to conquer and it may or may not yield any signs at all.
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Re: mantra and siddhi
Tue, September 1, 2009 - 6:48 AMHey Matt,
I could be wrong, but I think the end goal is to NOT have a disturbed or confused mind even with far out crazy experiences (like your dead child on your doorstep) and worldly siddhis (like flying,etc.). Milarepa said he was not an incarnate of a buddha or a tulku, that he was a normal man. He did enlightenment in one life, and his life was negative in many ways. It proves it is never too late to whole-heartedly practice dharma and have results.
When you say "I love you" to someone is it a habitual cordiality or is it an outpouring of heart? Is it meaningful? Or not? When you chant mantra do you feel the vibrations giving you a good feeling like "nourishment" or joy? Or is it just a formality or a pledge of allegiance to mantra? The sounds vibrates the presence of the yidam and has many other meanings. Chenrezig : Watcher of suffering.
OM = god realm
MA = demi-god realm
NI= human realm
PA= animal realm
ME= ghost realm
HUNG= hell realm
You probably already know this stuff but you are probably like me and need to be reminded. Try some new mantras. The sounds of some mantras don't mix with me. Everyone has their own frequency.
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
How do you know what you are doing is meaningful?
Tue, September 1, 2009 - 9:40 AMI ask this same question sometimes. It is good and healthy question if you are somewhat sane and not a complete nut. Can skillful imagination lead to understanding of emptiness? YES! The rituals are important for only finding out what is important. Mantra is "mind protection" tool. I was taught that mantra was only a part of a series "tools" and nothing should be added or ommited . ALL the vajrayana methods one is using ARE truly skillful and appropriate at all times always remembering the dedication to all sentient beings at end. The guidance of a qualified experiential teacher is vital if you are lucky to encounter such a thing in these degenerate times. If you find master in usa thats not a silly honky with a blackbelt and has room for one more stinky student let me know okay brother? Haha.
P.S.
No two thoughts can enter mind at once. So if at moment your thoughts are dharma you are noble-minded.
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Re: mantra and siddhi
Sat, September 12, 2009 - 8:58 PMHrm hrm. You can talk about honey until you're blue in the face, but the only way to know it is to taste. I didn't take the assertions about mantras very seriously until I started having dramatic and totally unexpected experiences because of them. Get the empowerments, try to get to where you can make at least 1000 repetitions of a mantra every day, and see how fast your life changes. Sarva mangalam. -
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Mantra Hrm hrm
Sun, September 13, 2009 - 1:00 PMI am blue in the face like papa smurf talking mostly filth than honey! Please stoop down and associate with an unclean brother with a huge demonic booger on his buddhanature, so that he may be blessed to understand emptiness with no extremes. The vinaya cleans "coarse" impurities, the sutrayana cleans more subtle impurities, mantrayana cleans impurities subtler still! 1000 daily mantras would bring much medicine. But simply looking at ALL phenomena as illusion with no aversions or attachments moistened by the ultimate vehicle of protection, "bodhicitta" You can enjoy everything with no fear of fault! The empowerment of just one yidam can do the same activity as infinite buddhas. :)
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Re: mantra and siddhi
Sun, August 23, 2009 - 8:35 AMThanks for the explanation. My guess from context came close.
I doubt there is a danger for me becoming tooo scholarly..over-thinking is a possibility..as I tend towards the analytical.
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Re: mantra and siddhi
Tue, August 25, 2009 - 8:28 AMNone told me that the mantra they gave me to help me "remove obstacles" was a secret so I shared it with a number of people as well as with this tribe. I had a ahrd time with the idea that I couldn't share it or ask for others' interpretations / translations./
Do you think all (or those that are directed towards ones own life as well as generally) mantras should be secret, in the sense that one doesn't tell anyone else which mantra they're saying??
Is that a common tradition in Tibetan Buddhism?
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Re: mantra and siddhi
Tue, August 25, 2009 - 4:57 PMHi Skylar,
Your question of whether others "think mantras should be secret" could bring a huge wave of responses but I think Mark would remind us that these discussions should focus around facts as much as possible rather than opinion so I will attempt to provide some help here.
The secret of mantra and mantrayana is common in Tibetan Buddhism. Holding secret mantra has as much to do with a student's samaya with his/her teacher as it does the actual practice.
The secrecy also prevents those who have not rec'd empowerment from the Guru/Vajra Master from trying to practice tantra on their own without a teacher and in isolation from the rest of dharma.
There are vows associated with mantrayana which include bodhicitta vows and other samaya vows. Samaya is a special bond and relationship with your Guru that is often secret on which many in this tribe may not be able to comment due to their own vows, however, a high level discussion regarding samaya could be very useful for someone to post.
Sarva Mangalam,
Bill
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Re: mantra and siddhi
Tue, August 25, 2009 - 10:42 PMI was given the mantra by a tibetan woman who is neither my guru nor a lama. She was simply helping.
I didn't ask if it was a secre t and she didn't tell me that it was.
I wanted to share it for a number of good reasons...primarily wanting to share the good it brought me and I hoped brought to others too.
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Re: mantra and siddhi
Tue, August 25, 2009 - 10:43 PMThanks for your thoughts on the question, Bill. : ) -
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mantra and siddhi
Tue, August 25, 2009 - 11:44 PMI could be wrong but I think mantra should be secret for only the reason that you don't want to add to someone's confusion or make your practice impure with their thought activity. I was given lots of transmissions and empowerments and was never told by a rinpoche lama that anything was secret. However maybe I never received any secret initiations and that is why.
Why have secrets when most folks can't even see what is in front of face over and over? I say. Maybe rinpoche lamas read this on my mind and knew I wasn't worthy keeper of secrets.
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Re: mantra and siddhi
Wed, August 26, 2009 - 7:20 AMAre we still talking about the Vajra-Guru mantra?
Ngakpa Bill, Is this mantra commonly considered a mantra which is "secret" in the same way that other mantra from certain Anuttara-tantra teachings are secret?
I was very definitely under the impression that it isn't. It seems to be commonly given to people in Padmasambhava's lineage who have never had tantric initiation and is frequently presented in non-restricted texts.
This is just from personal observation, and I admit I've never seen the topic of secrecy addressed with respect to this particular mantra.
Thanks for any insight that can be provided.
Ryan -
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Re: mantra and siddhi
Wed, August 26, 2009 - 9:05 AMYou are absolutely correct Ryan... and I am glad you clarified....the Vajra Guru mantra and Mani mantras are both considered open.
My comments were directly responding to Skylar's question about secret mantras.
by cc: to Skylar, I hope that helps. -
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Re: mantra and siddhi
Wed, August 26, 2009 - 9:21 AMYep, I was specifically referring to the Vajra Guru mantra. I"m pleased to hear they are "open" mantras. And I gather from the discussion that many are not open.
Thanks for the input!
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Re: mantra and siddhi
Wed, August 26, 2009 - 9:40 AMWhew, for a minute there I was feeling a bit confused, and a little worried about my previous posts in this thread.
Thanks Ngakapa Bill, its great having somebody like you here that we can ask questions of.
Warm Regards,
Ryan -
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MANTRA & TANTRA
Wed, August 26, 2009 - 7:03 PMYes indeed great having clarifications, thanks Ngakapa Bill.
What mantras are secret? The Khenchen rinpoche that I learned under never said anything was secret and even writes books for those with no qualified teacher like, "Calling The Lama From Afar." He says it is best to have teacher but Ratnashri Buddha Kyobpa Jigten Sumgon made vow to assist all without qualified lama. Those yidams that you do not have empowerments are okay to practice if you visualize them in front or on crown instead of the "becoming" visualizations. Ever hear of this stuff? Are these normal mainstream views or am I just mistaken? In my ignorance I have always casually thought only the founding sakya folks were offended and kept secrets.Thanks for any reply you guys really help my dharma .
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Re: MANTRA & TANTRA
Wed, August 26, 2009 - 7:31 PMI'm not learned in these matters..but just intutively I don't understand the need for secrecy. otoh, I can understand the value of a great teacher...but what if you haven't access to a great teacher.. if you are sincere and disciplined in your practice why should elements be kept secret from you.
I find the whole subject of mandatory secrecy and interesting one...
I wonder if it's not more about maintianing hierarchy..at least in for some people in some religions or philosophies.
I find it difficult to think that certain mantras or readings are dangerous to one's mental health if unprepared for them formally by a lama...but as I say I am not knowledgeable about the reasoning behind such perspectives. -
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Re: MANTRA & TANTRA
Thu, August 27, 2009 - 9:58 AMNowadays secrecy is often viewed as a bad thing.
When secrets are kept by those in power or governments, we suspect repression or some sort of control of hierarchy. I don't think that is the case here.
As Mark had pointed out earlier in this discussion, you need a teacher to help you to repeat what you have experienced during the empowerment.
So, the secrecy is really making sure that you have the instruction that goes along with the practice.
Regarding dangers....I have found that confusion has often been dangerous to me (both mentally and physically) . You must have strong support to practice tantra and no doubts if possible.
With the mind being so important, I would always prefer to having a professional (Guru) help me....after all, I don't do self-dentistry and my teeth are much less vaulable to me than my mind :)
Happy Thursday!
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Re: MANTRA & TANTRA
Thu, August 27, 2009 - 10:25 AMInstead of the word "secret", an alternative phrasing might be "requiring the personal instruction of a good teacher" ;-)
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Re: MANTRA & TANTRA
Thu, August 27, 2009 - 5:06 PMWell I am indeed a fool who doesn't ever see doctors or dentists. I still get sick and broken bones like everyone else. They heal on their own. Faster without medicine. A doctor will kill you and charge you for it. Let those rich angry fools have all the "healthcare" and sue the politicians and doctors with their lawyers. What a perfect selection of folks to be handed a bit of suffering, maybe they will get tired . Tibetan teachers seem normal but westerners that teach dharma are quite lame and hopeless. Happy Thursday! -
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Re: MANTRA & TANTRA
Fri, August 28, 2009 - 8:15 AMSorry for being a piss-ant .
If I find a good living teacher this life, it will be like a blind and wingless gnat finding it's yoke floating in another galaxy. Maybe it is possible but not likely.
Working on being a good student just in case I find a good mediocre teacher, which isn't even likely.
I found complete scans of Kanjurs and Tanjurs offered as public domain on www.tbrc.org (Tibetan Buddhist Resource Center) website. It took me all night to download but I have the derge Kanjur in .pdf
They want hundreds of dollars for it on disc. I am getting derge Tanjur now. I will share to those who aren't crazy enough to manually download thousands of files. Text is in tibetan, no translations yet .
P.S.
Superglue and steelwool isn't good for teeth I have found out.
hahahahaha
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Re: direct and thorough answer to Matt's original question, in terms of practice lineage
Fri, August 28, 2009 - 2:31 PM
I have responded to Matt's original question on a separate thread, since it is a major self-standing post, and now looped this earlier and long meandering thread into the new thread. See below.
KT
Title:
some classical core guidance on mantra recitation, short mantras for a number of tantric deities, strategies for mantra practice and results of practice
Reference for main post:
tibetanbuddhism.tribe.net/threa...bbc093
Keywords and main points:
Vajrapani short mantra, Padmasambhava short mantra, Simhamukha mantra. Tara short mantra, Vajrasattva short mantra, significance of 1 M recitations as deity yoga connection, importance of protector practice, authorizations for deity yoga practices, book "Dakini Teachings" by Guru Padmasambhava.
"The fault, dear Brutus, is in ourselves, that we are slaves."
Julius Caesar, in the play by Shakespeare -
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hopelessly lame western teachers
Fri, August 28, 2009 - 4:29 PMK
I am sad you are selective and don't help people that need it the most and you hate muslims and commies and you think tibet was a peaceful "shangrila" without any wars or slaves and a prude that shuns nakedness. You prove my points so awesomely kungfu master. All this ignorance in only 30 years practice?
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Re: hopelessly lame western teachers
Tue, September 15, 2009 - 12:09 AMYo KT,
Nothing to say? Fake things break easily don't they? ;)
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Re: mantra and siddhi
Mon, September 14, 2009 - 7:34 AMwhen you recite a mantra is it best to be thinking of the meaning or can you just say the words and focus on the sound.
(sometimes I say it soundlessly)
I'm attempting to get 1000 per day in...but I wonder if it's sufficient to just say it or must I contemplate the meaning simultaneously?
Opinions?
: )
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Re: mantra and siddhi
Mon, September 14, 2009 - 9:29 AMI could be wrong so take what I SAY WITH A GRAIN OF SALT! I use baby oil instead of salt and swallow a lot of volkswagens!
Two thoughts can't be entertained by mind at same time! Reflect on full meaning of mantra before reciting. Meaning and sound will later merge into one. Try to make each sound, it is best if you do make sound even if it is slight. Bless everyone with your efforts and dedicate to all sentient beings at end of session! Mantras do work even if said wrong! Sometimes when you try to be perfect you lose your parasol.
Hope this helps. :)
OM AH HUNG! -
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Re: mantra and siddhi
Mon, September 14, 2009 - 10:24 AMIMO the mind is -always- engaging in multiple levels of cognitive activity.
As to the example of mantra, it is quite possible to think about what your saying while your saying it. Given that most mantra are in Sanskrit, this would mean thinking English thoughts while reciting (mentally of vocally) Sanskrit. This is not hard. Think of the number of times you had a "song stuck in your head" and you were still able to think about something other than the words of the song. ;-)
Personally, while I readily acknowledge that such active reflection is possible, I don't think it is advisable. Active reflection before mantra practice (as mentioned by Nyonpa) seems to be a far better approach. It is possible to carry the affective quality of that reflection into mantra practice without dragging distinct discursive thoughts along with it.
Warm Regards,
Ryan
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Re: mantra and siddhi
Mon, September 14, 2009 - 12:34 PMThanks Ryan..and Thanks Lama!
I tend to think many thoughts so I think your suggestions are best. One of the points of meditation and recitation of mantras is to quiet the mind..if I focus on both the words and the english meaning at once (which is not difficult, as you say Ryan) I don't think it has the desired effect.
The intention to aid all sentient beings can be expressed beforehand and perhaps it is implcit merely in the reciting of the mantra.
Thanks again! -
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Re: mantra and siddhi
Mon, September 14, 2009 - 1:46 PMIntentions to aid all sentient beings first but dedications should always be last. They kinda seal the deal so to speak. It is like in the bank before you could possibly lose it in the "crapshoot". Your efforts on behalf of all sentient beings won't be stained by a non-virtue slipping in later. It is "skillful means". Right motivation is most important element in this stuff otherwise all efforts are not going to be successful. A qualified lama should be asked of these things so you are truly understanding your practice. Like I said earlier vinaya for coarse dirt removal, sutra for finer dirt removal, and mantra for finer dirt still removal. Big stains you don't scrub as hard as little stains, maybe you should take refuge first which is foundation of buddhist practice to see the big stain clearer before worrying about the little stains? Just a thought Skyler if you want to be serious.
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Re: mantra and siddhi
Mon, September 14, 2009 - 10:43 PMSorry lama I find you hard to understand tonight..but appreciate your efforts...
may your path be smooth, may you follow your own advice...
we each choose how best we can be compassionate..
thanks for your thoughts.. -
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Re: mantra and siddhi
Tue, September 15, 2009 - 12:02 AMSorry lama I find you hard to understand tonight< You might want to lay off the mickeys!
but appreciate your efforts< I am a glutton for bodhicitta!
may your path be smooth< It is very lumpy luckily! It keeps me awake!
may you follow your own advice< If I advise poop, I am trailer of poop!
we each choose how best we can be compassionate< Compassion without skillful wisdom is poop!
Skylar, don't be half-hearted or half-ass with your pursuit of dharma or skillful means! I pray you stop being goofy and get serious!
Can you also pray for me to stop being goofy and get serious!?
:)
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Re: mantra and siddhi
Tue, September 15, 2009 - 1:06 AMYou be you, Lama.
And I'll be me.
That's about all I can say, at the moment.
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Re: mantra and siddhi
Tue, September 15, 2009 - 2:39 AMI am not really a llama. -
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Re: mantra and siddhi : you have chosen to miscontrue
Sat, September 19, 2009 - 3:41 PMRe LLDD
"K
I am sad you are selective and don't help people that need it the most and you hate muslims and commies and you think tibet was a peaceful "shangrila" without any wars or slaves and a prude that shuns nakedness. You prove my points so awesomely kungfu master. All this ignorance in only 30 years practice? "
Wrong on basically all counts, LLDD.
I don't hate Communists or Muslims. I have never hated Stalin or Pol Pot or Mao Tse Dong or any other of those sort. I don't hate anyone in the Islamic Taliban, even those Sharia types who publically stone young girls to death. I just oppose genocide and cultural destruction in general, whether by Nazis, Communists, or Islamists. It's a fundamental matter of principle, not personal emotional reaction.
At the same time, I certainly do not like or cooperate wit hany Nazis, Communists, or Islamists. I certainly avoid such people to the extent possible. This is just common sense, just saying out of trouble.
When on Sept 11 2001, the four jet planes were highjacked by Islamic militants, and thousands were killed, I did not get angry.
I was bitter, frustrated, and hurt, and miserable, but not hotly angered. I cried some tears. I knew that a new chapter in cultural destruction was just beginning. I had foreseen it in 1987, in vision.
Like whatshisface Ryan Somebody from Minnesota, you somehow mistake me for a claimed kungfu master. I am not a kungfu master. Just as you are neither a mind reader nor a psychologist. Deliberately or through lack of intelligence ( or both ) you have chosen to miscontrue my clear and exact communication.
Tibet was a mostly feudal society. I make no apologies for Feudal Tibet. I am a Sanskrit Buddhist. My tantric Buddhist connections include Nepal, Tibet, China, and Japan. I am a Buddhist liturgical scholar and I have many many source texts from these branches of the source Indian / Indic traditions. Not to mention tons of notes on same, and on the supporting transmissions.
My "ignorance", as you term it, contains the complete transmissions for the source cycles of the Tibetan Kagyu and Nyingma transmissions, through principal lineage holders. The Yabshi and so forth.
Finally, I am not a "prude". One of my favorite movies is Dirty Dancing. Unlike most of the Buddhists I have met, I know how to breathe and to relate. And I keep a lioness at home.
KT
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Re: mantra and siddhi : you have chosen to miscontrue
Sat, September 19, 2009 - 5:53 PMDear KT,
I was just pointing out a few things. I wanted a reaction from you, I got one even if it is quite a delay..... Are you more than just the pipeHOLDER of Lakota? Thanks for putting tit in my tat so you aren't above confusion after all perhaps?
I know other honkies with a slew of wangs "N" lungs it blesses but it doesn't clean dirt!! You have to clean the dirt yourself with continuous efforts!! I just wanted to see if you were human or just a spam-bot . Thanks for showing me your pulse and explanation of heart. Some folks come across as a know-it-all and I can't help to point out flaws because I am a know it all too so................
By the way 911 was an inside job. No muslims did this sorry. Just rich honkies.
-The Notorious honky LLDD -
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Re: mantra and siddhi : you have chosen to miscontrue
Sat, September 19, 2009 - 6:32 PMI can't speak for Ryan but maybe your clear and exact communication was reason I found things a bit absurd, with the kungfu stuff thrown in with the dharma stuffs :)
perhaps?
If insulted review your actions, you insulted yourself. I love you man, thanks for the female buddhas!
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Re: mantra and siddhi : you have chosen to miscontrue
Sat, September 19, 2009 - 6:42 PMNow that you say you are NOT a kungfu master I am confused! hahaha!
Ignorance wins again! -
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Re: mantra and siddhi : you have chosen to miscontrue
Sun, September 20, 2009 - 7:40 AMKT,
I believe you have a lot of knowledge. Please ignore my insults I am obviously flawed and absurd myself. I am sorry for misunderstanding you. Your words clearly say other things that you may not be aware of. Even when at a superior vantage point, equanamity is very important attribute for a buddhist. That is why buddha became buddha partly to expose brahmin caste system as being wrong view. I respect your efforts. I thought you were pure fakery or at least lacking skillful means. The fault lies with me for trying to measure you. I was only trying to figure out what it was that I didn't like. To find the fault that I have, that finds fault with you. Peace and love to you.
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Re: mantra and siddhi : you have chosen to miscontrue
Sun, September 20, 2009 - 11:32 AMLama...
"By the way 911 was an inside job. No muslims did this sorry. Just rich honkies." This statement is revolting offensive.
Let's agree to keep our politics to ourselves, please, and return to Dharma discussions on this thread.
Best,
Sarah -
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Re: mantra and siddhi : you have chosen to miscontrue
Sun, September 20, 2009 - 1:18 PMYes, please Dharma only or subjects related to Tibetan Buddhism (which may sometimes include Tibetan politics like the Tulku system, etc....but not our politics please...I am sure there is probably a discussion group elsewhere for that).
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Re: mantra and siddhi : you have chosen to miscontrue
Sun, September 20, 2009 - 4:39 PMRevoltingly offensive? Sounds like a flaw and aversion you must deal with. Right on Ngakpa Bill will do. I had to defend the poor muslims a bit.
:)
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