i have some fear of sangha

topic posted Fri, July 3, 2009 - 3:36 PM by  .
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it has been some years now..

I have been vacillating showing my face to a buddhist center or temple.

Always back out of it.

I think i fear community...because of what I imagine of as pressure to assimilate...

Eventhough i know i am pretty descent do-no-harm kind of guy.i'm constantly fearing that i will be judged..i can't relax much.. i feel pressure to please others..
It's not that i do not want to please others, i do but i tend to feel obligated by the very fact that i am there as part of that community and that makes me self suspicious of my own motives..that i am faking it..

so I have just kept my so-called practice to myself.. reading books and figuring things out on my own..this way.. i do not dount my motives..and i don't feel pressure to assimilate.

I need some prespective.. advice..

thanks for your attention.
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  • Re: i have some fear of sangha

    Fri, July 3, 2009 - 8:46 PM
    Sounds like a pretty typical case of social anxiety to me. If you feel similar in other social situations it might be something you want to look into. If it is social anxiety there are treatments including both cognitive therapies and medications.

    Warm Regards,
    Ryan
    • Re: i have some fear of sangha

      Fri, July 3, 2009 - 10:58 PM
      Ryan has a good point here. A therapist could maybe help.

      Until you can find some comfort with others, you cannot
      enter Buddhadharma. Refuge is in three jewels, not one.
      You can learn *about* dharma from books, but only by
      hearing it face to face from a qualified teacher can you
      actually learn the real meaning.

      Guru is Buddha, in fact kinder than Shakyamuni since
      he or she is actually in front of you teaching. Also Guru
      is Sangha-- either red or white, or possibly not ordained
      but sangha nonetheless. Then there's the dharma-friends
      who help you to practice. If there's no temple and others
      maintaining it, there's no field of merit for you to accumulate
      merit and wisdom. Same for you-- if you don't, others cannot.
      Without proper practice, you cannot internalize Dharma;
      so you cannot meet the inner teacher, inner dharma or inner
      sangha.

      Since Dharma is to some extent about expanding your mind
      to an inconceivable scope, you will need to expand beyond
      whatever fear/s may be inhibiting your progress. It's like
      compassion: what does "all sentient beings" mean, if you
      cannot like or be with a few people at the temple?
      • .
        .
        offline 2

        Re: i have some fear of sangha

        Sat, July 4, 2009 - 7:30 AM
        Thanks everyone..

        i will see about seeing someone about social anxiety..

        I do know that i am not exactly on the fast track to enlightement

        thanks for your attention
      • Re: i have some fear of sangha

        Mon, July 27, 2009 - 4:06 PM
        <<<Until you can find some comfort with others, you cannot
        enter Buddhadharma. Refuge is in three jewels, not one. >>>

        The Sangha that is the object of refuge is the assembly of the arhats and bodhisattvas, which is represented by the assembly of ordained monks and nuns, just as the Buddha is represented by paintings and statues, and the Dharma by Dharma texts. It is only in recent years, and only in the West, that "Sangha" has come to be misunderstood as a congregation of Buddhists, including, apparently, anyone who wanders into a dharma center.
  • Unsu...
     

    Re: i have some fear of sangha

    Fri, July 3, 2009 - 11:40 PM
    Well, Buddha never had a sangha , it is a guide line, if you have a pure intention and sencere devotion on the path of enlightment , I am certain the Buddha within you will find what it needs to fully awaken.

    I can also suggest prayer to Lord Buddha or a deity in Buddhism you feel connected to for help with this situation more then therapy.
    The deities will show you the way if you can get in touch with them.
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: i have some fear of sangha

      Fri, July 3, 2009 - 11:42 PM
      Also just doing Tara Mantras will help, she is incredebly powerfull when it comes to fears and anxieties. I am sure she will guide you if you pray to her and to the Mantra on a regural basis.

      ohm tare tutare ture soha
      • Unsu...
         

        Re: i have some fear of sangha

        Fri, July 3, 2009 - 11:42 PM
        Medicine Buddhs is also good , for healing .
        • Re: i have some fear of sangha

          Sat, July 4, 2009 - 9:35 AM
          Yes all of these practices are good advice.

          Tara is especially good. If you can afford, it may be
          helpful for you to sponsor a group of monks or nuns
          to do extensive Tara practice for you to remove obstacles
          to practice. I'm talking many thousands or repititions--
          10,000 or 100,000. There's recitation of 8 Taras to remove
          fear, praises to 21 Taras, and also four mandala offerings
          to Tara.

          Or if you problem is very deep seated you may need to do
          something more extreme like Vajrapani or Vajrakilaya
          or even arrange for Healing Chod to be performed for you.
          If you'd like resources, feel free to privte me.

          I know you can break through the obstacle.
          • K
            K
            offline 139


            There isn't any significant pressure to assimilate in Buddhist fellowships. Unless you are engaging one of the Very Few which are fairly separatist.
            There is one separatist Gelugpa fellowship which is anti Padmasambhava.
            There is a worldwide Japanese fellowship which strongly rejects basically all other forms of Mahayana Buddhism.
            There is a split in the Karma Kagyu school, which is a separate matter.

            Other than these, you can't really get into a pressure situation.

            It makes sense for a woman to feel that men are aggressive or predatory, and some really are. But this is a general issue. WOMEN ( and not men ) should really have a lot of social issues. But even in Buddhist groups, this should be significantly LESS of a problem.

            You live in San Francisco. That's a really tough environment. I love the area, but the psychic energy is tough there. I wouldn't go on the street or on the BART without some warm up fierce mantra first, like firece Padma or Diamond Dagger. But that is the city, not the fellowship. I personally know four Tibetan fellowships in SanFran, and they should be just fine.

            You don't have to fear an interpersonal problem or coercion during empowerment. Just take a good empowerment and practice at home. No one will ask you do do a long retreat. No one will hit you up repeatedly for money. These are general requests to the sangha. No one will corner you individually for money.

            Buddhists on the West Coast are very veryopen minded in principle, and many or most Buddhists tend to be nonsocial. Some just get together and sit and say little or nothing! Any way, you're not dealing with Muslims in this context.

            You don't need an empowerment to practice Tara mantra. The mantra of Purifying White Tara is
            OM TARE TUTTARE TURE MA ME AYU PUNYA JNANA PUSTIM KURU SVAHA.

            Try to get a major empowerment that includes Vajrasattva. That is tremendously helpful and also central to tantric Buddhism.

            You can get good books without engaging anyone. One important general book is
            "The Dharma That Iluminate All Beings" by Kalu Rinpoche, a great modern master.

            I have spent decades doing the fierce mantras and these strengthen and purify. They never messed me up, although some evidently have problems. The "practice problem" is smoking and drinking and inattentive driving, not mantra.

            No student stands over any other Buddhist student. If you keep the Ten Precepts and are polite with everyone, then there should be no problem. Boundary management can be a very real problem with a few Buddhists, and I've dealt with that myself from time to time. But this is very easy to straighten out in five seconds, like I did with a 17 year old Vietnamese girl at a Buddhist Monastery, who as a stranger attacked me from 12 feet away. I went noes to nose with her, and quietly snarled
            "I ammm a teacherrr. Youuuu nnnneeed nnnnot instrrrrrrruct meeeeee." She went into a kind of quasi-blank shock, and I think the psychic cut stayed with her for many months, as it should.

            If you are feeling vulnerable, emotionally and mentally weak, even a 17 year old will boss you around! But if you have a decent physical yoga practice and some mantra, then you can handle yourself in many or most social situations.

            Summary: if you can handle yourself, you can handle others. So, learn to handle yourself. Psychological counseling in Cognitive Behavioral Methods may be necessary. Check out books by Aaron Beck. Also, buy a copy of
            "Getting To Yes"
            from the Harvard Law School Negotiation Project.
            This handles most social situations.

            Also, get a small paperback called
            "Zen in the Martial Arts."
            This could profoundly change your life.

            Your life is precious. Invest your energy well! Don't squander your time. Give yourself to as good future, and make stuff happen. A lto of Buddhists I see make little or no progress over years and decades, due to lack of investing their ENERGY. But that's really all you've got.

            You *have* been helped. And I am a dharma professional. No salesman will call. It's all up to you.

            If this isn't enough, then email me in six months.

            Best from up north,

            KT, medical yogi and dagger priest

  • Re: i have some fear of sangha

    Fri, July 10, 2009 - 12:25 PM
    I think most of this misses the point. (Heck of a way to say hello to this Tribe!)

    IMNSHO (in my not so humble opinion, yes?) it comes down to having a foundation for us/them dynamics ... having discovered the One True Way, I am more than likely to manifest in-group/out-group dynamics. (Holding that opinion is "wishful thinking"; acting on it is "deluded intellect".)

    It seems to me, following that line, that until and unless I really grok emptiness I'm very likely to be swept away by the social flow.
    Now fact is I've never fit into groups ... I find that sort of favoritism and partiality abhorent ... out of self-interest ... it serves to justify and rationalize all sorts of injustice, from mundane callousness (i.e. bullying) to global terror (You should see me take off on the topic of oligarchy and fascism!)

    The very best situation I've ever been in was "on the bus" in '68 and '69. But I saw back then how not all bus-bellies were in-formed by solidarity and loving kindness. "Do your own thing" actually translated into "be like us or STFU".

    The 2nd very best? A small Soto Zen Priory ... life in a Kagyu monastery wasn't close. And dealings with [name redacted] was actually a long series of slights indicating that I didn't fit in.

    Of course it's always easier to slink away and engage some practice or other ... abandoning upaya, compassion, empathy, solidarity, and finally loving-kindness. Easier, safer, and just what the bullies want.

    Dunno ... nothing bodhisattva about that ... and it sure ain't vajra behaviour.

    IMNSHO, of course. *snort/giggle*

    Mangalam!
    KC: aka WillowBear aka ben
  • Unsu...
     

    Re: i have some fear of sangha

    Sun, July 12, 2009 - 10:08 PM
    Hmm, I am going to take a different approach to your concern. Much like you, I have lived in a fast-paced, aggressive city. Now, I prefer silence and much reflection time. I did not always have social confidence until I understood myself and trusted in my ability to handle anything. Despite my ability to handle social scenarios, it is still my preference to be away from society. I say challenge yourself graciously and compassionately. Step outside yourself and remember that people are receiving your body signals too.

    Here are some starter tips: if you feel pressured or uncertain about a request that comes your way, say "I'll think about it." If you feel brave enough to try Sangha, most of it is done with meditation in mind. If you don't feel like staying and socializing, just leave.

    Also, not everyone needs to find their way in the sangha. There are some who practice Buddhism like hermits. One is not better than another. Go with the flow that is you. Don't flow via fear, but flow towards what you fear with relaxation and trust that you can handle anything.
    • Re: i have some fear of sangha

      Mon, July 13, 2009 - 8:35 AM
      This is a good track. I go to Dharma centers to
      learn and /or practice, not to socialize. I don't rush
      out, but I don't stick around to engage in meaningless
      chit-chat. I'm pretty social, I like good conversation, but
      I'm thee for a purpose-- so I has to be relevant chat.
  • Re: i have some fear of sangha

    Thu, July 30, 2009 - 10:40 PM
    Dear Friend,

    The refuge to the three jewels means:

    1 Buddha, the historical prophet, the experience beyond perception, the principle, the intrinsic nature, the accomplished Guru.

    2 Dharma, the cannon texts, the intuitive wisdom, the realized conscience, reliable meditation, words of the accomplished Guru.

    3 Sangha, the monasteries, the body comprised of all senses, Self-company, company of exalted ones, company of the Guru.


    The nicety-pretension is so much expected and suffered at the same time that whether in a sangha or not, it makes any person fake to any relationship. This is time to get rid of that with the courage of pure conscience and truthfulness.
  • Re: i have some fear of sangha

    Sun, August 2, 2009 - 4:34 AM
    I have some fear of sangha too. Maybe you are quite healthy and aware of your intuition which is telling you of the "energies" that you will be subjected to in advance so that you will be prepared to deal with them accordingly when they arise and not damage or lessen that which is sacred to you. Shrinks and mental medications are evil I tell you this from experience!
    • K
      K
      offline 139
      Response to "I have some fear of sangha [ Buddhist fellowship ]".

      I totaled up the Buddhists I have directly seen in person, during empowerments and transmissions.
      The count is over 16000 ( sixteen thousand ). They live in twenty countries.

      I met these people In Hawaii, the American West Coast, Chicago and France.
      They are Vietnamese, Chinese, Tibetan, Japanese, white middle class, Native American and so forth.
      This is over a period of thirty years.

      I find Buddhists neither flawless nor menacing. Overall, they're pretty reasonable people. This does not mean I would trust more than some with a critical task. Trust and reasonableness are two different things.

      This is my expert testimony.

      Sangha occurs at different levels. If someone walks in the door without having looked at a single Buddhist book, without knowing about outer, inner, or esoteric Buddhist refuge, they may well take a medium or even a major empowerment. But this does not turn individuals into instant experts in any aspect of the Mahayana or Vajrayana. Please keep this in mind.

      Generally speaking, seventeen year old "tantric Buddhists" should not try to boss around experienced and advanced tantric practitioners, although they sometimes try!

      There are actually more and more teens with major tantric empowerments. So they need to practice rather than teach or command others.

      Also, it would be better if some of the kids wore actual street clothes to highest yoga empowerments, rather than just slips and open bras. In general, I do not expect to be taking instruction from little girls dressed ( read : undressed ) in ways that would embarrass streetwalkers and pimps.

      I mean, wearing a whole bikini would sometimes be an improvement, though slight. So would the use of birth control, if the kids are going to sleep around. I know of several unwed / very young mothers brought up in tantric Buddhist TEACHER households. That's not necessarily what it means to be a "dakini". Maybe this is not so impressive or inspiring, or even practical.

      Over the last thirty years, I have received major transmissions from over sixty legitimate gurus, including a lot of primary lineage holders, including all the primary transmission cycles of the Nyingma and Kagyu schools. My focus is on getting real teaching and upholding vows with the focus on real lineage holders, rather than meditating on some supposed refuge in undressed teenagers.

      In short, those who show up for Buddhist gigs are, in general, PROVISIONAL Buddhist sangha, not the inner sangha per se. This difference is crucially important. Every Buddhist counts, but not always to ten. Just so you know.

      KT

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