I'm a new follower of Tibetan Buddhism, and the last topic about Lama Thunderbolt and how the term "lama" has become vernacular sparked my interest.

I am somewhat familiar with the New Kadampa Tradition and know that in this tradition they used the word Kadam as a title for a teacher.

Is there a difference in the meaning of the terms "lama" and "kadam"? Are the requirements to be considered a lama or kadam different?

Also, regarding "geshe", I understand this to be a person who is trained in knowledge of Buddhist scriptures, a scholar. I understand a lama to be a person with spiritual insights that enable him to guide followers. But in the New Kadampa Tradition they call their spiritual leader "Geshe".

Can anyone help clarify the significance or differences between these terms?
posted by:
Lola
Miami
  • Actually the custom in the real "new kadampa tradition,"
    aka the gelugpa, is to call teachers "gen," teacher.

    I doesn't matter what people call the person, the titles
    are credentials given by either one's lineage as embodied
    in a monastery, order or ngakpa gompa. In the Gelugpa
    order, to be granted the geshe degree, one has completed
    15-20 years of rigorous academic training at a monastic
    university associated with a monastery. There have been
    examinations both written and oral-- just like in a PhD
    program. Few who begin the process complete it. Bonpo
    has a similar process for its Geshes. If the person has
    taken the courses, but haven't sat for the exam, they don't
    get the degree or title. Of course, it is assumed that the
    Monk or Nun remains affiliated with their monastery
    regardless of whether they remain ordained. They don't
    ordinarailly break with the tradition that trained them,
    or get themselves excommunicated.

    The Sakya, Kagyu and Nyingma orders have a monastic
    degree kalled Khenpo/ khenmo. The term can also mean
    someone who has been a fully ordained monk/nun for 8-10
    years, but normally a khenpo also holds the academic degree
    of Khenpo. Each tradition is a little different in terms of how
    much retreat time is required for practice as distinct from
    academic study (memorizing texts and debating). Again if you
    don't sit for the exams, the monastery doesn't grant the degree
    or title khenpo. I know several Lamas who refrained from sitting
    for exams because they didn't want the title. It was a matter of
    wanting to maintain humility.

    Full ordination in a monastery typically includes a teaching credential.
    Few monks and nuns are fully ordained. Full ordination is granted
    to those who are sen by their teacher as qualified to hold the vows.
    Fully ordained monks without academic credential are called Gelong,
    fully ordained nuns Gelongma. Novice nuns are called Ani.

    Ngakpa Gomapas are a different animal altogether, but they also have
    academic programs associated with their dratsangs (dharma colleges).

    The title Rinpoche normally is given to an enthroned Tulku or recognised
    incarnation. There are incarnations that are recognized but not enthroned,
    usually they are given a letter of recognition but not always. Rinpoche can
    also be used colloqually as an honorific for one's own teacher regardless
    of whether they are a Rinpoche or not. My own teacher is known to be a
    Rinpoche, even though he was never fully recognized or entroned as
    a Rinpoche.

    The term Lama means "nothing higher-- father and mother" and is
    equivalent to the sankrit term guru. Anybody claining to be a lama can
    have their credentials verified.
    • K
      K
      offline 54

      Re:
      "The term Lama . . . is equivalent to the sanskrit term guru."

      Basically correct. The important thing to understand is what the term "guru" means. It comes from two syllables, GU and RU. The basic meaning is that guru is the one who takes you from darkness in to light, into spiritual light.

      Guru Sakyamuni Buddha was a guru because he was In The Light. He radiated actual light. This teacher had an astonishing aura.

      So it is not just a matter of title, it has a lot to do with the quality and power of the teacher's magnetic field.

      I never ever hear these western "Tibetan Buddhists" talk about human magnetic fields or auras. But tantra is actually based on that in large part. Same as with Hindu and Sikh practitioners of kundalini yoga.

      That's where the actual tantric empowerment comes from. From a human energy field. That's True Guru.

      In Sanskrit Buddhadharma, that is called the Sambhogakaya. In muggle English it would be called something like the angelic realm or energy body, or both. In yogic science, we call it by different names depending on whether we are Hindu or Buddhist and so forth. But it is something real and something that is actually experienced, not just a belief or dogma or a pipe dream.

      Veritas Lux Mea.

      "Truth is My Light".

      For us kundalini yoga practitioners, like Sakyamuni, Padmasambhava and Milarepa, it is also the case that

      Lux Veritas Mea.

      "Light is My Truth."

      These statements go together.

      If you can work on these statements from a YOGIC standpoint, you will go far!

      "In the final analysis, only exact practice yields a result."

      K T, inner medical tantrika and dagger priest

    • <<<The Sakya, Kagyu and Nyingma orders have a monastic
      degree kalled Khenpo/ khenmo. The term can also mean
      someone who has been a fully ordained monk/nun for 8-10
      years, >>>

      I have never heard that before

      <<<but normally a khenpo also holds the academic degree
      of Khenpo. Each tradition is a little different in terms of how
      much retreat time is required for practice as distinct from
      academic study (memorizing texts and debating). >>>

      I have never heard of any retreat time at all being required of khenpos. Many, if not most, devote time to retreat after having finished their academic studies, if they are able to.

      <<<Again if you
      don't sit for the exams, the monastery doesn't grant the degree
      or title khenpo. I know several Lamas who refrained from sitting
      for exams because they didn't want the title. It was a matter of
      wanting to maintain humility. >>>

      and also not wanting the responsibility of being a khenpo, of preferring to devote one's career to other things.

      <<<Full ordination in a monastery typically includes a teaching credential. >>>

      It does?

      <<<Few monks and nuns are fully ordained. >>>

      The majority of monks in Tibetan Buddhist traditions, certainly the vast majority of those over the age of 20 (calculated in Western years) are gelongs. There are of course no gelongma or fully ordained nuns tradiitonally, since the nuns' vows of full ordination were never introduced into Tibet.


      <<<Full ordination is granted
      to those who are sen by their teacher as qualified to hold the vows. >>>

      And that is virtually everyone who requests it, as do most who are over the age of 20.

      <<<Fully ordained monks without academic credential are called Gelong,
      fully ordained nuns Gelongma. Novice nuns are called Ani. >>>

      Monks are usually addressed as "kushog-la," unless they are tulkus, geshes, khenpos, umdzes, or older when they are sometimes called "gen," etc. Gelong (or gelongpa, which is never used, since there are no fully ordained nuns in the Tibetan lineages traditionally) is the word for bikkshu. All nuns are called ani when they are addressed. It is a term of respect that literally means "paternal aunt."

      The Tibetans have a habit of venerating anyone they can, since it is for the benefit of the venerator to generate merit by doing so, rather than for the object of veneration.
      • M: The term can also mean someone who has been a fully ordained
        monk/nun for 8-10 years,

        Konchog: I have never heard that before

        M: In that case, you don't know that Khenpo means abbot. So there's "Khenpo"
        in the colloquial sense and in the technical sense.

        Konchog: I have never heard of any retreat time at all being required of khenpos.

        In the Nyingma Palyul Shedra, there are very specific practice requirements
        before one is ordained a khenpo.

        Konchog: The majority of monks in Tibetan Buddhist traditions, certainly the
        vast majority of those over the age of 20 (calculated in Western years) are gelongs.

        M: That may be the case if the majority became novices when they could scare a
        crow. By age 20 you'd be about 18 years in the monastery and clear that you
        want to be a life-long monastic, teacher, etc.

        As for Anis, nowadays there are many both in Tibet and elsewhere who are being called "Khenmo" if they meet the academic criteria. And it is quite true, as I mentioned
        before to call one's own teacher "Rinpoche" regardless of whether he or she is one
        in the technical sense, because we practitioners do want the merit associated with venerating high beings.
        • <<<M: The term can also mean someone who has been a fully ordained
          monk/nun for 8-10 years,

          Konchog: I have never heard that before

          M: In that case, you don't know that Khenpo means abbot. So there's "Khenpo"
          in the colloquial sense and in the technical sense. >>>

          I understand that quite well. In fact there are 3 usages of "khenpo---all "techincal"--- and abbot probably isn't the best translation, but came along with whoever (mis)translated kyabgon as holiness and kyabje as eminence, etc.

          What makes a khenpo a khenpo is the ability to ordain monks and novice nuns, although it has of course usually been an academic degree in recent centuries.

          But I repeat, I have never heard of a monk or nun becoming a khenpo solely by holding gelong vows for 8 to 10 years.


          <<<Konchog: The majority of monks in Tibetan Buddhist traditions, certainly the
          vast majority of those over the age of 20 (calculated in Western years) are gelongs.

          M: That may be the case if the majority became novices when they could scare a
          crow. By age 20 you'd be about 18 years in the monastery and clear that you
          want to be a life-long monastic, teacher, etc. >>>

          It is still true today. Most are gelong.

          <<<As for Anis, nowadays there are many both in Tibet and elsewhere who are being called "Khenmo" if they meet the academic criteria. >>> as well as if they don't. I don't know that it could be characterized as "many," but it happens. More often though, they are called "ani khenpo," except in the West.

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