I'm a new follower of Tibetan Buddhism, and the last topic about Lama Thunderbolt and how the term "lama" has become vernacular sparked my interest.
I am somewhat familiar with the New Kadampa Tradition and know that in this tradition they used the word Kadam as a title for a teacher.
Is there a difference in the meaning of the terms "lama" and "kadam"? Are the requirements to be considered a lama or kadam different?
Also, regarding "geshe", I understand this to be a person who is trained in knowledge of Buddhist scriptures, a scholar. I understand a lama to be a person with spiritual insights that enable him to guide followers. But in the New Kadampa Tradition they call their spiritual leader "Geshe".
Can anyone help clarify the significance or differences between these terms?
I am somewhat familiar with the New Kadampa Tradition and know that in this tradition they used the word Kadam as a title for a teacher.
Is there a difference in the meaning of the terms "lama" and "kadam"? Are the requirements to be considered a lama or kadam different?
Also, regarding "geshe", I understand this to be a person who is trained in knowledge of Buddhist scriptures, a scholar. I understand a lama to be a person with spiritual insights that enable him to guide followers. But in the New Kadampa Tradition they call their spiritual leader "Geshe".
Can anyone help clarify the significance or differences between these terms?
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Re: The significance of the term "lama" as opposed to "kadam" or "geshe"?
Sat, April 12, 2008 - 7:31 AMActually the custom in the real "new kadampa tradition,"
aka the gelugpa, is to call teachers "gen," teacher.
I doesn't matter what people call the person, the titles
are credentials given by either one's lineage as embodied
in a monastery, order or ngakpa gompa. In the Gelugpa
order, to be granted the geshe degree, one has completed
15-20 years of rigorous academic training at a monastic
university associated with a monastery. There have been
examinations both written and oral-- just like in a PhD
program. Few who begin the process complete it. Bonpo
has a similar process for its Geshes. If the person has
taken the courses, but haven't sat for the exam, they don't
get the degree or title. Of course, it is assumed that the
Monk or Nun remains affiliated with their monastery
regardless of whether they remain ordained. They don't
ordinarailly break with the tradition that trained them,
or get themselves excommunicated.
The Sakya, Kagyu and Nyingma orders have a monastic
degree kalled Khenpo/ khenmo. The term can also mean
someone who has been a fully ordained monk/nun for 8-10
years, but normally a khenpo also holds the academic degree
of Khenpo. Each tradition is a little different in terms of how
much retreat time is required for practice as distinct from
academic study (memorizing texts and debating). Again if you
don't sit for the exams, the monastery doesn't grant the degree
or title khenpo. I know several Lamas who refrained from sitting
for exams because they didn't want the title. It was a matter of
wanting to maintain humility.
Full ordination in a monastery typically includes a teaching credential.
Few monks and nuns are fully ordained. Full ordination is granted
to those who are sen by their teacher as qualified to hold the vows.
Fully ordained monks without academic credential are called Gelong,
fully ordained nuns Gelongma. Novice nuns are called Ani.
Ngakpa Gomapas are a different animal altogether, but they also have
academic programs associated with their dratsangs (dharma colleges).
The title Rinpoche normally is given to an enthroned Tulku or recognised
incarnation. There are incarnations that are recognized but not enthroned,
usually they are given a letter of recognition but not always. Rinpoche can
also be used colloqually as an honorific for one's own teacher regardless
of whether they are a Rinpoche or not. My own teacher is known to be a
Rinpoche, even though he was never fully recognized or entroned as
a Rinpoche.
The term Lama means "nothing higher-- father and mother" and is
equivalent to the sankrit term guru. Anybody claining to be a lama can
have their credentials verified.
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Re: The significance of true guru, actual tantric empowerment & the human energy field.
Mon, May 5, 2008 - 6:12 PM
Re:
"The term Lama . . . is equivalent to the sanskrit term guru."
Basically correct. The important thing to understand is what the term "guru" means. It comes from two syllables, GU and RU. The basic meaning is that guru is the one who takes you from darkness in to light, into spiritual light.
Guru Sakyamuni Buddha was a guru because he was In The Light. He radiated actual light. This teacher had an astonishing aura.
So it is not just a matter of title, it has a lot to do with the quality and power of the teacher's magnetic field.
I never ever hear these western "Tibetan Buddhists" talk about human magnetic fields or auras. But tantra is actually based on that in large part. Same as with Hindu and Sikh practitioners of kundalini yoga.
That's where the actual tantric empowerment comes from. From a human energy field. That's True Guru.
In Sanskrit Buddhadharma, that is called the Sambhogakaya. In muggle English it would be called something like the angelic realm or energy body, or both. In yogic science, we call it by different names depending on whether we are Hindu or Buddhist and so forth. But it is something real and something that is actually experienced, not just a belief or dogma or a pipe dream.
Veritas Lux Mea.
"Truth is My Light".
For us kundalini yoga practitioners, like Sakyamuni, Padmasambhava and Milarepa, it is also the case that
Lux Veritas Mea.
"Light is My Truth."
These statements go together.
If you can work on these statements from a YOGIC standpoint, you will go far!
"In the final analysis, only exact practice yields a result."
K T, inner medical tantrika and dagger priest
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Re: The significance of the term "lama" as opposed to "kadam" or "geshe"?
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 2:05 PM<<<The Sakya, Kagyu and Nyingma orders have a monastic
degree kalled Khenpo/ khenmo. The term can also mean
someone who has been a fully ordained monk/nun for 8-10
years, >>>
I have never heard that before
<<<but normally a khenpo also holds the academic degree
of Khenpo. Each tradition is a little different in terms of how
much retreat time is required for practice as distinct from
academic study (memorizing texts and debating). >>>
I have never heard of any retreat time at all being required of khenpos. Many, if not most, devote time to retreat after having finished their academic studies, if they are able to.
<<<Again if you
don't sit for the exams, the monastery doesn't grant the degree
or title khenpo. I know several Lamas who refrained from sitting
for exams because they didn't want the title. It was a matter of
wanting to maintain humility. >>>
and also not wanting the responsibility of being a khenpo, of preferring to devote one's career to other things.
<<<Full ordination in a monastery typically includes a teaching credential. >>>
It does?
<<<Few monks and nuns are fully ordained. >>>
The majority of monks in Tibetan Buddhist traditions, certainly the vast majority of those over the age of 20 (calculated in Western years) are gelongs. There are of course no gelongma or fully ordained nuns tradiitonally, since the nuns' vows of full ordination were never introduced into Tibet.
<<<Full ordination is granted
to those who are sen by their teacher as qualified to hold the vows. >>>
And that is virtually everyone who requests it, as do most who are over the age of 20.
<<<Fully ordained monks without academic credential are called Gelong,
fully ordained nuns Gelongma. Novice nuns are called Ani. >>>
Monks are usually addressed as "kushog-la," unless they are tulkus, geshes, khenpos, umdzes, or older when they are sometimes called "gen," etc. Gelong (or gelongpa, which is never used, since there are no fully ordained nuns in the Tibetan lineages traditionally) is the word for bikkshu. All nuns are called ani when they are addressed. It is a term of respect that literally means "paternal aunt."
The Tibetans have a habit of venerating anyone they can, since it is for the benefit of the venerator to generate merit by doing so, rather than for the object of veneration. -
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Re: The significance of the term "lama" as opposed to "kadam" or "geshe"?
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 4:28 PMM: The term can also mean someone who has been a fully ordained
monk/nun for 8-10 years,
Konchog: I have never heard that before
M: In that case, you don't know that Khenpo means abbot. So there's "Khenpo"
in the colloquial sense and in the technical sense.
Konchog: I have never heard of any retreat time at all being required of khenpos.
In the Nyingma Palyul Shedra, there are very specific practice requirements
before one is ordained a khenpo.
Konchog: The majority of monks in Tibetan Buddhist traditions, certainly the
vast majority of those over the age of 20 (calculated in Western years) are gelongs.
M: That may be the case if the majority became novices when they could scare a
crow. By age 20 you'd be about 18 years in the monastery and clear that you
want to be a life-long monastic, teacher, etc.
As for Anis, nowadays there are many both in Tibet and elsewhere who are being called "Khenmo" if they meet the academic criteria. And it is quite true, as I mentioned
before to call one's own teacher "Rinpoche" regardless of whether he or she is one
in the technical sense, because we practitioners do want the merit associated with venerating high beings. -
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Re: The significance of the term "lama" as opposed to "kadam" or "geshe"?
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 10:59 PM<<<M: The term can also mean someone who has been a fully ordained
monk/nun for 8-10 years,
Konchog: I have never heard that before
M: In that case, you don't know that Khenpo means abbot. So there's "Khenpo"
in the colloquial sense and in the technical sense. >>>
I understand that quite well. In fact there are 3 usages of "khenpo---all "techincal"--- and abbot probably isn't the best translation, but came along with whoever (mis)translated kyabgon as holiness and kyabje as eminence, etc.
What makes a khenpo a khenpo is the ability to ordain monks and novice nuns, although it has of course usually been an academic degree in recent centuries.
But I repeat, I have never heard of a monk or nun becoming a khenpo solely by holding gelong vows for 8 to 10 years.
<<<Konchog: The majority of monks in Tibetan Buddhist traditions, certainly the
vast majority of those over the age of 20 (calculated in Western years) are gelongs.
M: That may be the case if the majority became novices when they could scare a
crow. By age 20 you'd be about 18 years in the monastery and clear that you
want to be a life-long monastic, teacher, etc. >>>
It is still true today. Most are gelong.
<<<As for Anis, nowadays there are many both in Tibet and elsewhere who are being called "Khenmo" if they meet the academic criteria. >>> as well as if they don't. I don't know that it could be characterized as "many," but it happens. More often though, they are called "ani khenpo," except in the West.
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